How to beat MSU marines

[Guest]

Well it seems that space marines and space wolves multiple small unit armies are dominating some of the tourney list discussions. They bring a lot of firepower and don't care if you destroy any unit in the army because everything is cheap and nothing is crucial for the armies success. So how do you beat an army that doesn't care if you destroy any one unit? How do you kill that many vehicles in the current system?

1. You make sure that you always win trading shots by having superior armor value.

2. Generate enough shots or high strength attacks to destroy vehicles.

3. Outflank to bottle them up or punish them if they don't.

I will post two lists that "should" combat msu marines. What are your thoughts and strategies to beat them?

[Guest]

Space Wolves 2000 points

Bjorn 275
Twin Las

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf with thunder hammer, storm shield, and saga of the bear.

Rune Priest

3x Iron Clads in Drop Pods

3x Basic Land Raiders with Multi Melta

3x Grey Hunter Packs with Melagun

This list makes Str7 weapons useless. Str8 loses most of its effectiveness unless you rely on rolling a six (good luck), str 9 is unreliable at best. Str10 or ap1 weapons will give you a fit but how many are played in msu vanilla marines, very few. In msu wolves you face more meltas but they can be targeted first or killed at range. The entire list is high av and has built in protections at range, i.e. rune priest stormcaller. The iron clads drop in to the part of his army that will best kill your raiders and either destroys the threat or keeps him occupies while your lascannons destroy his razorbacks. The wolf lord gives him another fast moving, highly destructive, and survivable threat that can kill any thing in the game in one assault.

[Guest]

Tyranids 2000 points

4x Tervigons (2 troop, 2 HQ)

3x 3 Hive Guard

2x 10 termagants

2x 5 Genestealers with Broodlord outflanking

2x Tyrannofex w/Rupture Cannon

The outlfanking genestealers force them to bottle up or die. The rupture cannons take out the biggest threats to the tervigons. the termagants provide cover to the hive guard while they themselves have feel no pain. The hive guard gives the tervigons and tyrannofexes a cover save. Rinse, wash, repeat.

[Guest]

Imperial Guard 2000 points

Company Command Squad w/astropath, officer of the fleet, 4 meltaguns

Inquisitor w/2 mystics, emperor's tarot, 3 meltagun vets

3x Inquisitorial Storm Troopers w/2 melta guns

3x Veterans w/melta bombs, 3 melta guns, 1 demo charge

5x Chimera w/multilaser, heavy flamer

3x Vendettas w/Heavy Bolters

2x Demolishers

2 Hydra Flak Tanks

The vets with meltabombs mount in the vendettas to alpha strike multiple units each or outflank and do the same or meltagun one unit. The CCS, =I=, and IST's ride the Chimeras and provide cover for the demolishers and hydra flaks. Should you go first, this army can cripple msu, land raider spam, mechdar, or battle wagon spam.

[themonad]

i need to play against that IG. Still havent cut my teeth on guardsmen and with their lists being some of the strongest out there, i could only learn by playing something like that. How nasty are Hydras on Mechdar? Do they become a top priority? Or do I just skirt around and make sure to get 50% obscured saves?

[Guest]

The hydra flak gets 4 twin linked str7 shots and denies your turbo boost save. They definitely become the top priority of the Eldar army, just like the riflemen dreads.

[fallenbob]

i can see the nid and guard list doing good against other types of lists but the wolf one looks likes itll be in trouble if it goes against another style of list

[Battle-Brother Cain]

Imperial Guard 2000 points

3x Inquisitorial Storm Troopers w/2 melta guns

Think this is one too many ISTs... Only 2 troops allowed from witch hunters. Could be wrong here, but pretty sure Im not on this one.

[fallenbob]

a player can add up to 4 ISTs to his army, 2 from the daemonhunter dex, 2 from the witch hunter dex.

[Stormlord]

Well it seems that space marines and space wolves multiple small unit armies are dominating some of the tourney list discussions. They bring a lot of firepower and don't care if you destroy any unit in the army because everything is cheap and nothing is crucial for the armies success. So how do you beat an army that doesn't care if you destroy any one unit? How do you kill that many vehicles in the current system?

just to clarify
we've all noticed that the MSU lists are indeed dominating online discussions
but has anyone actually gotten a chance to either fight with or against one of these lists?

i am sure Sean/Jamal have done some playtesting amongst themselves and Chad, but i mean a real game or a tournament against folks who you dont get to play regularly?

I am just curious if they are working out as well in practice as people think they will on paper...

[fallenbob]

jamal's used my marines using the razor list in one or two tourneys at jaks and did pretty well with them if i rem correctly

other then that, its been games of my marines vs chad's guard or proxied bugs